ANCIENT WISDOM, MODERN HEALTH | THE WELLZEST PODCAST WITH TEJU OWOYE & DR TONI BALFOUR

[00:00:00] Speaker A: Foreign. Hi everyone. Welcome back to the Wells as podcast. You are in for an absolute treat. Today. I have Dr. Tony with me, who I have been waiting to get on the podcast. She is just such a wealth of knowledge and I want to tell you a little bit about Dr. Tony before we dive in. So, Dr. Tony Balfour is a doctor of Chinese medicine and founder of Ying Yang Dermatology, a telemedicine practice specializing in herbal treatment for chronic skin conditions. With over 25 years of clinical experience, she blends lineage based Chinese herbal dermatology with modern integrative approaches to healing. After unfortunately losing her Pacific Palisades clinic in a fire and facing her own cancer journey, Dr. Tony has expanded her work to include education and advocacy through her new podcast, which I'm so excited about, called Healthier Than Ever, which explores resilience and holistic healing and the intersection of Eastern and Western medicine. She is known for her calm and grounded approach and her ability to make complex medical ideas accessible and deeply human. Wow, wow, wow. Dr. Tony, so much. [00:01:23] Speaker B: Thanks for having me. [00:01:24] Speaker A: Just such a joy. Such as. Such a joy. I mean, literally, I'm just gonna like, totally nerd out. When I saw you walk through the door, I was just beyond jazz because I mean, man, the experience, the wisdom, everything that you bring to the table, I just can't wait for us to share that with our guests. [00:01:41] Speaker B: So I so appreciate such a lovely introduction. That's so warm and wonderful. [00:01:48] Speaker A: Yay. Oh, my goodness. So wait. I always love to do this because I always think about our guests is like my personal superheroes. I want to know your origin story. Tell me a little bit about, like, take us back, you know, who you were, who you've been, some of the things that have shaped the person that is here with us today. [00:02:10] Speaker B: Great. Yes. Well, I would say that I always felt like I was really a chill person, relax, non stressed. And I think that other people would have described me the same way. But growing up, I probably, maybe around age 14 or so, realized I was like grinding my teeth at night and clenching my teeth at night. And I knew that this was sort of a stress behavior. I'm not seeming stressed during the day, but things are coming out at night. And then one thing led to another. But I taught English in Taiwan for a year after college. How cool. It was great. And I was. I had been living in Florida. I went with the boyfriend of that time. We stopped by LA on our way out and visited his aunt and uncle. The aunt was a hypnotherapist. And after I Met her, I thought, I bet hypnotherapy could stop me from grinding my teeth. It just kind of got into my mind. But we left and we went to Taiwan, and that thought escaped. But then when I was in Taiwan, one of my adult students. I had, like, a headache or my neck had become stiff from, like, this grinding thing. He said, oh, you should try acupuncture. So there I am in a foreign country, and this is way before anybody had a personal phone or Google or we didn't have computers. It was like, this is foreign. And I'm thinking, this is going to be great fodder for a postcard to send home to the family. It's like, oh, I've got needles in me. We'll take photos or whatever. But little did I know that it actually not only helped my stiff neck and my jaw pain and things like that, but it got to the underlying root. It stopped the behavior of the clenching and the grinding and. And that was a big aha moment for me. You know, I knew that it was possible I had learned about hypnotherapy, and I thought, oh, it could be done that way. But instead, I was getting these results through acupuncture. [00:04:19] Speaker A: Wow. [00:04:20] Speaker B: And at that time, they were also giving me these bags of, like, powdered herbal medicine. And I didn't speak good Chinese at all, and they didn't speak English, And I was very distrustful. Like, how are these people, like, giving me these herbs? [00:04:35] Speaker A: Right. [00:04:35] Speaker B: And they tasted really intense. So I'll be honest with you. I didn't really take. Take the herbs that were prescribed to me. I was too scared. [00:04:44] Speaker A: Someone hands me a random bag of herbs, like, I don't know if I'm gonna take them. I didn't. [00:04:48] Speaker B: I didn't. But then later, it was the herbal medicine that I fell in love with. So, you know, things evolve over time. And this is when I bring you back to this story. This was, like, 1993, 94. I was in Taiwan teaching English. So it was a long time ago. [00:05:05] Speaker A: Wow. I mean, let me ask you this. Was there any resistance on your. So, you know, it sounds like you're a bit curious, but part of you that was resistant, like, oh, I don't really know about this whole thing. Like, this is. Or also did other people in your life, you're like, hey, I'm doing this. Were they questioning what you're doing? [00:05:22] Speaker B: No, because I think for me, it was the adventure. I was always an adventure seeker, a thrill seeker. And it was me, too. [00:05:32] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:05:34] Speaker B: Part of, like, the cultural experience. If I'm going to be in a foreign culture and I'm doing this cultural thing, I want to experience it on different levels. So I was sort of jumping in feet first, and nobody was trying to. To stop me. But what I will say very genuinely is I didn't have any expectations of having any positive result. I was really doing it for the postcard. I wasn't doing it for, like, to have a medical. Aha, Mom. [00:06:03] Speaker A: How interesting. So it was more of, like, for, like, in, you know, today's term, like, for the gram. For the. Yeah. [00:06:09] Speaker B: Yes. It was long before. Before there was a gram, but yes. Yes. [00:06:13] Speaker A: Not really. Yes. [00:06:14] Speaker B: And it transformed your life, and it transformed my life. [00:06:17] Speaker A: What was the journey from there? Like? What led you? So you have this experience. It's an unlock for you. Yeah. What was the journey for you? To become a practitioner. And I know you used to practice acupuncture. Walk us through the modalities that you studied and how you got into each of them. And. [00:06:33] Speaker B: Well, at that time, I didn't even know that there were acupuncturists in the United States and that you could learn about it here. You know, I thought you would have to study in Asia. But as weird things happen, purely bizarrely later on, within the next couple years, let's say, one of my college roommates had moved to Seattle to study Chinese medicine. [00:06:58] Speaker A: Oh, wow. [00:06:59] Speaker B: Which was crazy. I didn't know that was. I know it was, like, very bizarre. So from there, I kind of started to learn that, oh, this could be an actual career path I was trying to find myself. But I did find that through traveling, I was always curious about healing traditions and different cultures and, you know, different. I was in India and, you know, the herb shops and the smell of the ayurvedic herbs and things like that stuff was drawing me in. But it took a while for me to know that that was a career path. But anyway, you know, I. I moved to LA to study Chinese medicine. And then as things evolve and change, like I said, I fell in love with herbal medicine. But definitely acupuncture is a big foundation of what we do as Chinese medicine doctors. Um, but I had another path of. Of getting into herbal dermatology. When I was pregnant with my daughter, who's now 16, I had a really bad rash condition, and it was maddening. It's called pups. It's awful. It's like you get these. Yeah, it's. It's almost like your progesterone rises and it's Like a histamine allergic response. But I had these like, you know, hive like bumps from here to here, from my collarbone to my knees. It was weird that it didn't affect my face, but it didn't. But it was so itchy and it's driving me crazy. And at that point I kind of came to terms with my limitations as a Chinese medicine doctor because when I was an intern in clinic, I had treated, you know, a few dermatology cases, some successfully and some not successfully. And so what my takeaway from that is, oh, dermatology is hard, which it is. So there was a young, probably 20 year old who I treated who had severe eczema that was like weeping eczema. And she was so young. And I, I remember. And back then I didn't, I wasn't a person who cried a lot, but I remember like treating her and she got up off the table with acupuncture needles and the table paper was like covered in these wet spots from all of her eczema that was weeping all over the place. And her quality of life was so bad, you know, she was so miserable. And I do remember crying after I treated her. And I do remember that she got very good results with Chinese medicine. And that was like a great feeling, right? But then I also treated somebody with psoriasis who got no results with Chinese medicine and he had severe psoriasis. And so I think, you know, I got scared of dermatology then. But then fast forward however many years, 10 years, and I had my own skin condition and you know, then I become, I gotta learn more about this thing that I can't do well yet. And there was a, in the field of Chinese medicine, a well known professor and clinician who was in England. [00:10:36] Speaker A: Okay. [00:10:37] Speaker B: And I thought, oh, he needs to start teaching online. But he wasn't, he wasn't going to teach online. And at that time he was like, no, you know, people come from all over the world to study with me here. And I thought, well, I can't do that, I've got a toddler. But anyway, one thing led to another. When she was three, I started, I signed up for this diploma course. He was teaching in England and going back and forth, you know, to study, [00:11:02] Speaker A: going back and forth. [00:11:04] Speaker B: I was hardcore. [00:11:05] Speaker A: Wow, that's intense. [00:11:07] Speaker B: Yeah. And the studying, it was academically rigorous and you know, I took it seriously and I'm glad that I did. [00:11:18] Speaker A: Incredible. What a journey. What a journey. You know, I think that what's really interesting to me is I hear a lot of Conversation where people talk about Eastern medicine versus Western medicine and you know, kind of the difference in philosophy, the difference in between the two. But I feel like it's almost become like, you know, how do I want to articulate this? Like it's almost become like a battle. Like Eastern medicine always does this right and Western medicine always gets this wrong and vice versa. [00:11:45] Speaker B: Right. [00:11:46] Speaker A: How do you think about the two and, you know, how do you balance both philosophies in your practice and, you know, kind of in your journey? How have you balanced the two? [00:11:58] Speaker B: Yeah, that's a tricky question because I think each modality has its strengths and weaknesses. I think one of the weaknesses of Western medicine has been that there weren't a lot of options. Like for people with eczema or with children with eczema, for example, there wasn't that much you could do beyond steroid creams and calamine lotion and things like that until more recently. Now there's biologic drugs and things like that. But I think many people were given steroid creams like as a long term solution. [00:12:45] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah. [00:12:46] Speaker B: For their eczema. And it suppresses inflammation, but it doesn't heal anything. So if your body is balanced enough that it can heal itself after suppressing inflammation for a little while, then yeah, you'll, you'll get back to normal. But if it's not, then there are bigger problems that can happen from overusing steroid creams and things like that. [00:13:11] Speaker A: It's terrible. That's, that's what happened to me. I had eczema. That's why I started clean rebellion. And that was the only thing that was provided. It was like, you know, rub this all over your body and like, good luck, have a nice day, you know, and there wasn't any. And that's how I got into holistic health and wellbeing and all the things now. Well, zest. Yeah. Was my own desire to research and understand, you know, okay, how else can I attack this problem? And you know, the things that worked for me may not work for everyone else, but for me it was radically changing my diet, it was radically changing, you know, working on inflammation, healing my gut, you know, all of those types of things which, you know, now I've been eczema free for many, many weeks, years, thank goodness. But yeah, I think it's in Western medicine there's at least my perspective has been, you know, there's a push to prescription a lot of times. [00:14:03] Speaker B: First. Yeah. [00:14:04] Speaker A: Whereas it seems like the underlying root cause, there isn't the, you know, not Say, rigor, but there isn't the, like, push to say, like, okay, what's really happening? And how do we, you know, fix your baseline? First and foremost, unfortunately. [00:14:20] Speaker B: Yeah. And you as an individual, you made a choice to do the work. Right. And I think, you know, for a lot of people that are going to their regular western dermatologist, they. They don't maybe want to do that work. They want to be given the. The quick fix. And. And the problem is it just isn't sustainable long term or maybe doesn't work. And so for me now, you know, a lot of my eczema patients have that option of doing a biologic drug like Dupixent, which, you know, I have. Some of my patients have been on it or continue to be on it, but a lot of people don't want to make that choice to alter their immune system in that way, but they're willing to do the work. Right. So that's what it. I think, you know, yeah, there's. There's no easy way. So I think for me, the patients that I attract are people who are committed to working on their health with different. Coming from different angles. [00:15:31] Speaker A: Yeah, for sure. And it's. Yeah, it's not. It's not easy. It's nuanced. It also depends on stage of life, socioeconomic as well. You know, there's. There's so many different factors. The education that you've received on health and well, being, your insurance plan, the early part of my career in insurance. So, you know, just understanding that the coverage that you have allows you to maybe go for more testing versus someone that doesn't, you know, it's a high deductible health plan where there's more. There's so many facets. But yeah, yeah, doing the work and like, really also having the. I feel so grateful that I've, you know, been able to spend the time and energy there. It's. It's a game. It's been a game changer for me. [00:16:16] Speaker B: Right. [00:16:16] Speaker A: You know, so, yeah. [00:16:20] Speaker B: Not to, like, doctor you, but has it been a game changer for more than just your skin? [00:16:25] Speaker A: 100%. [00:16:27] Speaker B: That's what typically happens. Somebody will see me for their skin health, but then we end up making improvements in. So, [00:16:36] Speaker A: yeah, that's what people don't realize. Like, I feel like for me, the biggest thing was healing my gut, you know, really working on that. And then I felt so many, like, so many different unlocks. Like, wow, my brain fog is gone. Like, I feel, you know, just like, more mentally clear. I feel Lighter, like so many things that were a byproduct of that, which is great. Yeah, yeah. I want to take a. I want to take a step back because I realize, you know, I hear people talk about traditional Chinese medicine all the time. TCM this, TCM that. Give us a baseline definition of what traditional Chinese medicine entails. And then what are some of the practices, the herbs, like Walk Us through, you know, give me like the 101 version, because I'm coming into this new Walk Us Through. [00:17:23] Speaker B: So I think that when we think about traditional Chinese medicine, the modalities that are used, you'll hear about acupuncture, where needles are placed in on the meridians of the body, and herbal medicine, which is always customized for a person. So you might have eczema, and I might have five other people here who all have eczema. And you'll all be treated with different herbs because it's individualized, depending on how it presents, which sometimes you can see in the skin. You know, sometimes there's dry, flaky or leathery looking skin, and sometimes it is like oozing and weepy and, you know, so the formulas for those cases would be completely different. But also two people with dry eczema might be given different formulas if, you know, sometimes it might be worse around the period or sometimes it might have to do with their gut health. And somebody might have a lot of bloating and gas and constipation. Another person has really loose stools, so they're going to be given different herbs. Right. So it's always finding many aspects of a person's health picture that could be emotional, it can be physical, it can be things that I can see on the skin or looking at their tongue. We always look at the tongue as a diagnostic tool in Chinese medicine, but sometimes it's just having a conversation. So I'm finding out what's really going on for you. And I might learn about different traumas or different emotional stressors that are, you know, in, in your life. But Chinese medicine also incorporates, I don't know if you're familiar with gua sha. [00:19:12] Speaker A: Yes, I am. Yes, yes, yes. [00:19:14] Speaker B: I love gua sha. Yes. So gua sha can be cosmetic, but it can also be, you know, for kids. It's often used like for a child who has, let's say, a cough, you're going to hit these points associated with the lungs on the back and the upper neck and things like that. So, yeah, there's the gua sha, there's like a beautiful stone and then you use an oil and kind of scrape it against the, scrape it on the skin. Scraping sounds not pleasant, but it's not unpleasant for like a kid that you're playing. Yeah, right, yeah, you're rubbing it, but the skin will turn red. Similar. I don't know if your viewers are familiar with cupping, which is also used in traditional Chinese medicine that, you know, there are these cups that get a vacuum seal and they will often leave like a circular red mark on the back or the neck. It's the same kind of thing. Gua sha, you can get redness just like with cupping, if you're using it more medically like that. So tuina is a Chinese massage that's part of traditional Chinese medicine. [00:20:24] Speaker A: Okay. [00:20:25] Speaker B: You could think about it kind of like shiatsu and then like practices like qigong, which people will do, you know, in groups. Qigong is, is Tai chi is one kind of qigong. It's sort of movement and breath and energy flow that way. So there are a lot of different modalities that can have similar goals and kind of work with people to find out what, what will resonate for them and what they can stick with. And you know, sometimes qigong is great for stress relief and day to day health, but it's a little slower than having an acupuncture treatment. Right. But for some people that's, that's great, that's what they need and they'll sustain it for longer period of time. So you always kind of want to work with people, see what's going to work for them. [00:21:20] Speaker A: Right? [00:21:21] Speaker B: Yeah. But we have options. [00:21:23] Speaker A: I, you know, I love the fact that there's so many modalities, but I want actually before I go into the modalities because I asked questions about those. Yeah, the tongue, the tongue, you mentioned that you look at the tongue. What are, what are you looking for? Like what are some of the markers? And maybe if someone at home, Right. You know, you don't want to self diagnose, but if there are things that you're like, you know what, maybe you should go see a specialist. Like, see a specialist if you see this on your tongue. Walk us through that. [00:21:54] Speaker B: You know, I wouldn't want to make anyone nervous and say, you should see a specialist. If you've got a thick coat on your tongue but [00:22:03] Speaker A: firing like, ah, you know. [00:22:05] Speaker B: Exactly, exactly. But some of the things that we, we look for are color. Like if you could have a very red tongue, which is indicative of some kind of internal heat, sometimes the tongue is more purplish, which shows stasis and stagnation. The blood is not flowing as it should. If it's very pale, then, you know, that's more indicative of cold, which could be. There's not enough yang energy. The yang is what warms you up and fires you. The coat of the tongue, if you have like a thick white coat, it shows some kind of internal dampness. And again, you can have, like, joint pain and swelling. That could be a damp symptom. [00:22:51] Speaker A: Okay. [00:22:52] Speaker B: But, you know, loose stools could be a damp symptom or like I said, weeping eczema. That's a damp symptom. So dampness will express in all kinds of different ways. But, you know, you could kind of gauge progress by changes in the tongue. And if there's a thick coat that is more yellow, then you know that the damp has mixed with heat to make the, like a damp heat tongue coating. So you might also see like an acne, you know, yellow pus and like a pimple. Right. That's also like. That's damp heat. So. [00:23:29] Speaker A: Wow. Yeah. Interesting. I didn't. I didn't know that the tongue. I mean, every part of our body is so intelligent, but I would have never thought, like, okay, look at your tongue for different signs and. [00:23:41] Speaker B: Right. [00:23:41] Speaker A: You know, that being something to really be aware of and mindful of. Yeah. I feel like people always think about, at least for me, I feel like it's like, you know, where do I have acne? Or like, where do I have the. You know, like, people are looking for those. [00:23:55] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:23:55] Speaker A: Topical symptoms on their skin. But yeah. The tongue is such a. Interesting unlock to understand. [00:24:02] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:24:02] Speaker A: Which is really cool. [00:24:03] Speaker B: Yeah. It's funny because when I treat patients now, which is just through telemedicine, I ask them to email me photos of their skin, but I also always ask for a photo of their tongue. And I think for some people, that's, you know, probably like a strange random. Unless they've been to an acupuncturist who has looked at their. [00:24:24] Speaker A: What is happening here right now? [00:24:26] Speaker B: So I try to explain it, and then I worry that sometimes I forget to mention, like, why I've done that. So it's always. Yeah. [00:24:35] Speaker A: You know, I'm actually curious of speaking about, like, diagnosis and patients sending you photos. Yeah. What labs? I'm always curious about this. Like, what labs are actually helpful, like, you know, from your traditional Western medicine. Doctor. [00:24:50] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:24:51] Speaker A: What are the labs or the results or the values that you like to look at that are helpful in informing your work? [00:24:59] Speaker B: In most cases, I'm not asking for labs at all. Because I am using the actual look of the skin, you know, because I've been doing this for a long time. So the skin itself tells me, gives me the most information, but then the tongue and talking with people, you know, there are certain cases where I might see a sign where, you know, for example, I saw someone on a video recently and the half of the eyebrow was kind of missing, or I couldn't really see it. And then I'm like, oh, you know, asking them about their thyroid test. When was the last time you had a thyroid test? Because that is, you know, a sign of hypothyroid. So there are circumstances under which I'm going to ask about specific tests that like that. But typically I don't. I'm. I'm prescribing according to traditional Chinese medicine principles, and I'm not going there. But sometimes it can be very informative or if there's like an aha moment where I think, oh, we need to check this out from another perspective as well, you know, and then, like I said, there are many paths to healing too. So I'm not an expert in functional medicine testing, but if somebody has had like a GI map or, you know, which is a stool test that tells you about gut dysbiosis, I definitely want to see the results. And, you know, like. [00:26:32] Speaker A: Exactly. [00:26:33] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:26:33] Speaker A: To get that holistic view. You talked about principles of traditional Chinese medicine. Walk us through that. And then also you mentioned energy, like the different types of energy. I'm a novice to tcm, so I'm curious, you know, walk us through. Through, like, what are the different energies? What are the principles, you know, that we should. We should know about? [00:26:57] Speaker B: So we always treat patterns, like I was alluding to before. So when you kind of look at yin and Yang, yin is moist and yin cools you down. And yang is more like fiery and movement and things like that. And a lot of symptoms can be seen, seen in terms of a yin and Yang dichotomy. Right. So I mentioned damp earlier. That's yin. If you have too much damp, that's an excess of yin. Heat is yang. And you could have an excess of heat and an excess of damp at the same time. Right. So, so, but there are also these acupuncture meridians that flow through the body. So the. The meridians are like lines. If you look at an acupuncture model, you'll see all these lines. The body. And different patterns might be associated with different meridians. So, for example, if you're stressed and frustrated, and angry. And they talk about unfulfilled desires. Those are all associated with the liver meridian. So if your liver meridian and nothing is wrong, maybe with your Western liver, it's doing its job, it's filtering the blood, it's doing. But in Chinese medicine, you have all these emotions that can affect the liver. And then the qi can stagnate. It's not flowing as it should. It gets stuck. And when the qi of the liver is stagnant, like a lot of other repercussions, different things can happen. It can stagnate the blood, which might cause period cramps. It can give rise to heat, which might cause, you know, a rash around your mouth or your nose. You know, there's so many things that can happen where the root of the problem is the chi of the liver is stagnant. And so, you know, when we talk about in, like, you know, daily life that stress is the root of all illnesses and diseases. The live. The liver meridian in Chinese medicine is something that we look at affecting so many different types of conditions. But then, of course, there's an interplay between the liver and like, maybe the stomach meridian, for example. So if your liver is overacting on your stomach, you might get a lot of reflux or nausea or vomiting, you know, so there, there's so many options of the ways that things will interplay. But yes, so a Chinese medicine doctor is like evaluating the lungs, the heart, the liver. The. We. We talk about digestion as having a lot to do with not only the stomach, but the spleen meridian. And again, it's not. The Western spleen is not. Not the same, but, but yeah, the spleen's job, they say, is to separate the clear essence from food, from turbid waste that gets eliminated. So the clear essence becomes your, like, energy, your chi. And if the spleen is doing a great job, it's creating energy from food and it's eliminating the waste, then that's great for many parts of health. But very often the spleen meridian is deficient and weak, or there's dampness blocking the spleen, and then the digestive function is off. But it's also like you're not getting the energy, the vitality from food that you should be getting. So that's really one of these fundamental things in Chinese medicine. You know, we, we look at the liver, we look at the spleen, we look at the heart associated with joy. But also if you're not sleeping well, it can be the. The heart spirit is disrupted. So sleep is such a fundamental part about getting good, about having good health. And the heart meridian is associated with sleep. [00:30:59] Speaker A: Wow. I didn't know that. You know, I'm curious. What are the things that you see? People come into you. They're like, you know, we start talking about eczema, you know, and they're like, there's this problem. But then you start having a chat with them. You know, you're like, all right, we're going to have a proper chat. Let's talk about what's happening. What are some of the emotions that people start to reveal that you found? Like, hey, there's a pattern here. This is actually driving maybe some of this. And then what do you do? What do you tell them to do after? Is it. Hey, go to therapy, too. Have it, you know, work through that. I'm gonna also prescribe you with herbs. [00:31:42] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:31:43] Speaker A: But you also need to really work through trauma, whatever it may be, emotional, whatever it may be. What are some of the common threads that you're seeing? [00:31:52] Speaker B: That's an excellent question. And it is something that has sort of evolved in my time working. One of my good friends who practices Chinese medicine, she has a psychology degree and a comparative religion degree, and she always worked, like, on the emotional plane. And I would have said for a long time. No, I'm a. I'm an herbalist. I work on the physical plane. But in treating skin conditions, it has come to me that it is such emotional work, because a lot of my patients will have rashes on their face. Like, perioral dermatitis is a rash that can be around the mouth, but it could also, technically, you could say periorificial dermatitis around any orifice of your face or your ears, so your eyes, your nostrils, your mouth. And when somebody. I also treat a lot of adults acne. You know, you talked earlier about teenagers who have acne. I usually teens will kind of want to be treated in the same way their friends are. And most of my acne patients are not teenagers. They're adults. [00:33:06] Speaker A: Interesting. [00:33:06] Speaker B: Yeah. Yeah. [00:33:08] Speaker A: I grew up in the proactive days. Remember proactive? [00:33:11] Speaker B: Sure. [00:33:11] Speaker A: It was like. [00:33:12] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:33:13] Speaker A: And their mom wanted pro. Like, you know, I was like, okay, who's got the problem? It was like selling it out of vending machines. And that was the only thing that we knew. [00:33:20] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:33:21] Speaker A: And I. I feel like people don't realize how prevalent adult acne is. And hormonal acne is, like, you know, so I feel like everyone was slapping. I'm proactive back in the day. [00:33:33] Speaker B: No, it's. I used to ask that Regularly to my patients who had perioral dermatitis, you know, I'd say, did you have bad acne in high school, for example? And they would say, no. And I'm like, did you use a lot of proactive or things like that to contain it? Because, you know, all these things affect your skin barrier. So that, in my opinion, might lead to a vulnerability to be getting rashes later on when you're altering your skin barrier in that way. But yeah, just back to the emotions. It was. It's so emotional for people to have something that affects their face, and it is so distressing. So, you know, I realize that a lot of my work is emotional work when I'm talking with patients. And yes, I do think for them working on their mental health. And I will often say, you know, what. What do you do for self care? Are you meditating? Are you, you know, doing any breath work, any yoga that can have a meditative aspect to it? I do more qigong, but I don't expect my patients to be doing, like, [00:34:41] Speaker A: you know, every day. [00:34:43] Speaker B: Not every day. [00:34:46] Speaker A: That's cool. [00:34:47] Speaker B: But, yeah, so definitely being in therapy, all these things are part of helping. But one of the beautiful things about herbs is I can have an herb that does something very physical that's also acting on an emotional level. So it can. Like, for example, I'll bring it back to eczema, since you've experienced that eczema. The emotional picture is commonly quite different because itching is maddening and drives people crazy. So it's like, yeah. [00:35:26] Speaker A: Yes, it is, friends. [00:35:28] Speaker B: So that there's more of that irritability and volatility and, like, you know, snappy and quick and angry than, like, you know, people that have a rash on their face. It's more they're sad, they're depressed. It's like there's a. There's fear. It's a different emotional picture in general. [00:35:46] Speaker A: Now I'm thinking about myself. I'm like, I can relate to that. Like. Like, you know, I feel like I mellowed out a ton. Yeah. But in my, like, teens, 20s. Oh, yeah. I would, you know, I'm a fire. I'm an Aries fire sign. So, like, we gotta, you know, get it done. If it's not getting done, I'm getting frustrated, you know. [00:36:05] Speaker B: Right, right. [00:36:06] Speaker A: Control. [00:36:07] Speaker B: Yes. Yeah. So some of the herbs that treat itch, they also help you sleep, you know, because so many people, they're itching at night. The itching gets worse at night. And then to be given an herb that has both of those qualities. Just makes you wonder about how the people, you know, hundreds and sometimes thousands of years ago that discovered these attributes of herbs, like, how are they figuring this out? [00:36:36] Speaker A: Right. And who's the first? Yeah, I'm going to, you know, or take this. [00:36:40] Speaker B: Yes, yes. But the fact that now we have this body of knowledge where we know certain herbs do help with sleep, that also help with itch, it's kind of fascinating. [00:36:49] Speaker A: It is endlessly fascinating. And it's. Yeah. Like, humans are so resourceful, you know, like, the ingenuity of people. I wonder who is the risk taker. That's like, all right, we're gonna. This smells like kind of. Okay, we're gonna just pluck this off the tree or, you know, harvest this, and we're gonna. That person. Thank you. Right, right. [00:37:11] Speaker B: And very in tune with nature and observational. Being willing to. [00:37:16] Speaker A: Yeah, I'm actually speaking of intuitive. That's something I always think about. How often does intuition play a role in your practice? How you diagnose patients, how you work with them? [00:37:29] Speaker B: I think that's a multifaceted area because. [00:37:34] Speaker A: Right. [00:37:35] Speaker B: For me, I think studying a lot and being very sort of academic and continuing to look things up a lot, like, that's really important to me. But I also feel like the more that you learn that way, the more you can trust your intuition. Because years of experience, especially in Chinese medicine, you know, that there's a reverence for sort of old doctors, you know, doctors who practice in their 80s because they've seen things. And it's. It's a profession where experience really does make a big difference. And I think. Yeah. Getting older, seeing a lot of patients, I trust my intuition more because it's developed from experience. But I think sometimes, you know, you just have to be cautious about stuff like that. If you're. If you're seeing a practitioner in any modality who's like, just kind of only going by, like, oh, I have this gut feeling about something, then, you know, I don't know. [00:38:44] Speaker A: Yeah, someone's like, yeah, I think this will kind of work. Or like, I'm getting a vibe. Yeah, someone's going on vibes, guys. Like, that's not. No. [00:38:53] Speaker B: Yes, yes, yes. [00:38:55] Speaker A: We can't be going on vibes, you know? [00:38:57] Speaker B: Exactly, Exactly. [00:38:59] Speaker A: You know, I'm curious. I'm just. Just thinking about this. You know, what is one ailment you feel like traditional Chinese medicine could help but people aren't aware of, you know, like, hey, there's another route for you. [00:39:15] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:39:16] Speaker A: Outside of the And I'm. We keep talking about eczema today. Outside of the, like, steroid cream. [00:39:21] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:39:22] Speaker A: You know, what are some other ailments that you think TCM could really help? [00:39:25] Speaker B: Well, the first thing that comes to mind is perioral dermatitis, just because that's one condition where steroid creams will make it worse. So people try to put like, hydrocortisone from the drugstore on their rash that's on their face, and it can get worse. Usually in Western medicine, they're offered antibiotics, and often I've had many patients who have been on antibiotics for months at a time. The gut flora, the, the rash is under control when they're taking it, and then as soon as they stop, the rash rebounds and comes back. So, I mean, you know, I don't, I don't want to be like fear mongering for any of your listeners that have. Yeah, but, but yeah, that is one thing, because again, there aren't like a lot of other options from Western medicine. So to know that there's something else that can be really helpful and effective. And, you know, having people change their toothpaste, get like sodium lauryl sulfate out of the toothpaste and fluoride, sometimes out of the toothpaste. You know, there are things that you can do, very gentle skin care routine, but the herbs, you're being proactive on a, on a healing path, that's a lot more effective. So that's one condition that I can think of. Although there are probably countless things. I think it used to be that acupuncture became known for treating pain, for treating back pain and migraines, but then people wouldn't think of it for anything else. There's so many things that Chinese medicine as a whole can be helpful for that. Yeah. [00:41:09] Speaker A: What are some of the other uses of acupuncture? Like, back when you did practice, like, what are some of the other ways that people can leverage acupuncture as a way for healing? [00:41:19] Speaker B: I think definitely regulating the period. [00:41:23] Speaker A: Oh, really? [00:41:24] Speaker B: Yes. [00:41:25] Speaker A: I didn't know that. Yes. [00:41:27] Speaker B: What? [00:41:28] Speaker A: Wait, unpack this. Because I had no clue that that was one of the. [00:41:32] Speaker B: Oh, yeah, huh? Yes. [00:41:36] Speaker A: See, this is why we have guests on, because I feel like, I feel like I'm over here getting a master class. [00:41:40] Speaker B: Yeah, no, I'm glad I didn't know that. Well, yeah, so if I'm treating like an adult acne patient, for example, oftentimes there are period problems that might be going along with it for women, you know, they might be having delayed periods. So that are late or they might be having missed periods, you know, and somebody who has sort of. It might be pcos, but it might not even be pcos. Am I getting too medical? PCOS is polycystic ovarian syndrome. [00:42:08] Speaker A: Yes. No. This is great because actually a lot of our listeners have PCOS or endometriosis. I have uterine fibroids. I have not tried acupuncture yet. Fibroids. But everyone keeps telling me that it would be super helpful and I should give it a try. So that will be. I feel like it's. It's on the list and I need to do it. [00:42:30] Speaker B: Yes. Yeah, yeah. Heavy periods and things like that can be helped with acupuncture with herbs. So. Yeah. So in my practice, I'm seeing a lot of people with acne that might have a menstrual issue. But. But acupuncture can also be really helpful for that. But, you know, acupuncture is great for emotional health, too. So when. Whenever there's a problem where the emotions and the physical body are both part of the picture, I think acupuncture is a good choice for those types of things, too. [00:43:09] Speaker A: So that's a good way to. I never thought about it that way. You know, like motion and then the physical expression of whatever that may be. [00:43:16] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:43:17] Speaker A: I have not tried acupuncture. It's been on the. It keeps saying. And I've tried a whole mix of things. [00:43:24] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:43:24] Speaker A: But it's one of the things I need to go try. Like, I feel like I'm being called to try it now, especially after speaking with you. [00:43:31] Speaker B: Definitely I need to try it. [00:43:34] Speaker A: You know, I'm curious. What are some of the things that you're doing now, personally, for your own health and well being? You know, walk us through that. [00:43:43] Speaker B: All right. Well, not. Not to get depressing here, but a lot of people who. Who study Chinese medicine, they're attracted to the field because maybe they've dealt with some kind of lifelong chronic health problems themselves. Like, maybe it was eczema. Maybe it's like an autoimmune condition where Western medicine didn't have the answers and they're having, you know, joint pains and things like that, fatigue. I was a very fortunate person that I came to Chinese medicine, but I was, you know, I told you I was grinding my teeth, but I was pretty healthy. I. I wasn't looking for the answer of solving a chronic health problem. So I had practiced Chinese medicine for over 20 years when I was diagnosed with lung cancer, which is so crazy for A never smoker. Young. Relatively young. I mean, I was 52 maybe, and. And I didn't have any symptoms. I was incidentally diagnosed because I was in the hospital with an infection in my ab abdominal wall, and they kind of found the cancer, incidentally, through that journey. [00:45:05] Speaker A: Oh, my goodness. [00:45:06] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:45:06] Speaker A: Just out of note, you had. Other than the abdominal. [00:45:09] Speaker B: No, no, nothing. I wasn't coughing. There was no indication of. Of anything. [00:45:16] Speaker A: Right. Yeah. [00:45:18] Speaker B: A lot of people, you know, I follow a lot of lung cancer patients in, online and things like that. A lot of people, like, they feel that relief of the diagnosis because they've had weird symptoms and coughing for so long. And then finally there's this answer. Like, I figured out what happened for me. I had no lung symptoms at all. And a year later, the cancer metastasized to the abdominal wall where the infection had been. So it became metastatic cancer. So that, of course, like, the whole process of being diagnosed with cancer in your 50s and being a healthy person, that's. That's. This is where the Healthier Than Ever podcast comes to. Comes to be. Because I'm not saying that I'm healthier than ever, but I'm on a quest to become healthier than ever. And it's a. It's a search. And so that my health routine for myself now is largely informed by that. So I have, weirdly, like, of course, when I first had stage one lung cancer, and they did what they call a lobectomy, they did a surgery that removed a lobe of my lung. You know, my doctors kind of. It hadn't spread, and it was so great, and it was like, it wasn't in my lymph nodes. They didn't do any kind of systemic treatment for me. So I was sort of left on my own. And I took a lot of, like, mushrooms and, you know, different herbs and supplements and all kinds of things. But after it metastasized and now I go to a lung specialist at City of Hope. He's a researcher, and he's awesome. I love him. He is, like, because he's a researcher, don't take any herbs. Because he wants to see that. The treatment that he's giving me, which is immunotherapy, I'm not doing any kind of chemo or anything else. He wants to see what it's doing. So he doesn't want these other factors that might affect my immune system. So I respect that. But he did say you can cook with herbs. So of course. Of course I'm cooking with, like, these medicinal herbs. You know, he's like, don't overdo it. [00:47:35] Speaker A: But oh my gosh, you're like, okay, thank you. But yes, yes, yes, we're cooking. [00:47:43] Speaker B: Yes. So, so I'm cooking with my herbs. I am. You know, like I said, I'm doing qigong. I do need to get a big surgery in a few months where they're going to like repair my abdomen that was all messed up. So I'm doing physical therapy to prepare for the surgery, which is so great and so important for me because I need the strength building. I'm doing interval walking. Are you familiar with interval walking? [00:48:14] Speaker A: No, I've never heard of this. [00:48:15] Speaker B: I, I read an article that talked about like a Chinese clinical study. It wasn't Chinese, it was Japanese. Sorry, a Japanese clinical trial that they did where they tested people who would go on these walks where it's three minutes, like fast so that you know you're short of breath and then three minutes of just like your normal pace walk, it's on and off for 30 minutes. And they found better results with these 30 minute walks four times a week than they found with people doing a 45 minute walk seven days a week. [00:48:46] Speaker A: Really? [00:48:47] Speaker B: That was what the study said. And I thought, well, that really resonates for me. I'm preparing for surgery, I need to strengthen and anyway, regardless, I am strengthening my lungs. I love qigong because breath work is part of it and then it's also really good for the lungs. I started like getting this app that's called Simply Sing. That's like singing. I like sing. Like singing is good for the long. Like. Yes. So I'm doing all these things but the interval walking, it's. I, I made these playlists on Spotify. I actually had ChatGPT help me with [00:49:20] Speaker A: this because I chat GPT for the win. That's one of the things that ChatGPT is so good. [00:49:24] Speaker B: I know, I'm like, I need, I need a 3 minute faster song in a 3 minute, so slower song and then a 3 minute faster so that I'm listening to music that's going to tell me about when I'm fast and when I'm slow. Rather than trying to set a timer or like, I'm like, forget that. So I've got my little interval walking playlist. [00:49:41] Speaker A: That's amazing. Yes, I'm going to try it. I'm such a walker. Like, I love people, people who know me, they like make fun of me because I, they're like, she's a walk in and a walk and I just go for These long walkabouts. Do the intervals. That's a really. [00:49:56] Speaker B: I like the interval walking. And that before, honestly, that was my one unhealthy habit that I had before was I wasn't. I was so irregular about any kind of walking and exercise. It was like, I felt healthy, I felt fine, and I just ignored my need to be consistent with exercise. So that's the biggest change that I've made in my life. Now I'm doing, like, the pt and I do that every day. I do the interval walking regularly and I do the qigong less consistently. But I'd like to make time in my day to be doing all the things. But, you know. Yeah, yeah, it's tough. [00:50:35] Speaker A: There's only so many hours. And I think, like, you know, yeah, it's tough. [00:50:40] Speaker B: And I think priorities get reconfigured. I'm taking a class right now for Chinese medicine practitioners that's. It's called Dimensions of Self. Like, learning these different dimensions of ourselves in order to become a better healer. You're learning about yourself. And our homework is to do 30 minutes of, like, unguided meditation every day. So because I have the homework and it's like, so you've got the accountability. I've made that the priority. So I'm. That is something that I am doing consistently every day because that's what I signed up for. Right. But sometimes it means, like, I'm not doing some of the other things as consistently. It's hard. It's hard to do everything. [00:51:24] Speaker A: It's hard. You know what? It's so funny. I've come into a season where I'm just trying to be kinder to myself. [00:51:30] Speaker B: Yes. [00:51:30] Speaker A: Because, you know, it can feel like you've got your life checklist, your business checklist, and then your wellness checklist. And I'm like, okay, I need to do. And some days it's just not. Some weeks, it's not getting done. And I'm just trying to. [00:51:44] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:51:45] Speaker A: Surrender and not be as right. Like, oh, I've got to do all these things or else. And I think that. That, like, letting go of the stress of it. [00:51:51] Speaker B: Yes. And I think for me, too, because, you know, I was. I was hesitant to name this podcast that's like, exploring sort of cancer modalities. I was. I was very hesitant to call it healthier than ever because I. I don't want it to seem like, oh, look at me, you know, I'm healthier than ever. It's not. It's not that. It's. It's, you know, Anyone who struggles with a health condition, we're all needing to find modalities and angles and ways to heal that that resonate for us. And, and part of it is what's the right thing at the right time. And it's not such a simple formula. I mean, we all heard diet and exercise, right. And those things are very important. But yeah, making, making time and reconfiguring your priority list and giving yourself like, grace and, and, and yeah, it's all so important. [00:53:00] Speaker A: So important. You don't mind me asking, how are you doing now? And you know, how are you feeling? And you know, I'll follow up that I feel like, I mean, wow, what a big, you know, what a big thing. Yeah. What are some of the things that you are learning as you're, you know, working through cancer? Your health and wellness and. Well, all the things. [00:53:26] Speaker B: Well, what's uniquely strange for me is that when I first was diagnosed with metastatic cancer, it was like my oncologist was sort of a generalist who wanted to do just like this generic six month course of chemo. And I went for a second opinion, which is something that I strongly recommend anyone with cancer get a second opinion from someone who is a specialist in the type of cancer that you have. And so my doctor did some testing and said, no, we're just going to do immunotherapy. And so I do these infusions. At first it was every three weeks. Now it's every six weeks. And my body has responded really well to the immunotherapy. My side effects are not nothing too big. So all that is great. Physically, I'm able to do a lot of these things. I can cook for myself and my family and I can cook these healthy foods that I want to cook. All those things are great. The emotional toll, I mean, stage four lung cancer, the survival rate is low. So, you know, there's always that fear. I get a scan every three months and there's scan anxiety. The, you know, as optimistic as, like the oncologist can be, I, I say I wish I could have his optimism. But then there's this fear it could come back. And then what does that mean for treatment or for mortality? Like, all these things. There are like big questions that come up throughout that, which is part of like the podcast journey to like, talk about fears around death and, and, you know, how to navigate that emotional terrain, motherhood. My fear is around my, my, my own daughter's emotional reckoning with all of this. And my husband too is a great caregiver But, I mean, he's. He's positive energy, but, you know, that, you know, so that works for him. But I'm like, is that a little bit of denial? But, you know, you're trying to. You try to figure all these things out. But the. Yeah. The. The emotional terrain is challenging. And for me, it's also having this surgery coming up that we've been, like, playing with different dates for a long time of when this is going to happen. And I think I'm really glad that I'm strengthening my body ahead of time, but it still is, like, this looming thing. [00:56:10] Speaker A: Yes. [00:56:10] Speaker B: And I'm so thrilled that my oncologist is also really positive energy. And he's just like, you're going to do great. It's great. And, you know, I love him for that, but it's still scary. They're going to, like, you know, do a big surgery. I'll be in the hospital for seven to 10 days and then in a skilled nursing facility for rehab for two or three weeks after that. So it's like. It's a big deal. [00:56:37] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:56:38] Speaker B: And. And, yeah, there's so many. Yes. [00:56:44] Speaker A: You know, it's. You know, I feel like. And I'm trying to think of the best way to unpack this. It's like cancer is one of those things that people don't talk about, you know, And I actually know a lot of people who unfortunately have cancer. Just this past year, a good friend of ours, you know, we were on a ski. Supposed to go on a ski trip with them, and they, you know, didn't come to the flight. You know, I don't want to go too much into the detail, but, you know, it turns out he has stage four brain cancer out of nowhere. [00:57:20] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:57:20] Speaker A: And, you know, I'm curious what your perspective is. [00:57:24] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:57:25] Speaker A: How do you. And by the way, thank you for being so open about this, because it's really tough topic. [00:57:31] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:57:31] Speaker A: How do you support someone and have conversations that are authentic? [00:57:37] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:57:37] Speaker A: You know, and I think that we can often get into the overly positive mode. Like, it's gonna be okay. You're gonna be fine. You know, it's. I will say, just, I'm gonna call myself out. It's my coping mechanism to someone else. [00:57:52] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:57:53] Speaker A: How do you have conversations that are authentic and. And grounded and, like, what are ways to support someone that's going through a cancer journey. [00:58:04] Speaker B: Right. [00:58:04] Speaker A: Without, you know, diminishing what they're going through? [00:58:08] Speaker B: Right. I have to say I have that same concern because I can be really positive energy and so It's. I think the most important thing is to not be afraid to bring it up. I'll give an example. My daughter, she has a friend whose father died recently, and she started in conversation to say something, and she, like, caught herself and stopped herself from saying something. And I said, you know, if you mention her father, it's not like you're reminding her that her father died. She's not. She's thinking about it 24 7. And I would say it's the same with people who have cancer. If you bring it up, it's not that you're reminding them of their cancer because they're thinking about it on some level, you know, hourly, let's just say. So, yeah, checking in about somebody's health, but also trying to sort of meet them where they are. So just being a listener before you're offering anything up. So, yeah, just the questions of, you know, how. How are you feeling emotionally right now? And how are you feeling physically? And, you know, is there anything that I can offer you in any way? But one of the. One of the treatments that they talk about, it's like, you need to laugh. [00:59:29] Speaker A: Yes. [00:59:30] Speaker B: And can I watch something funny with you? Or can I send you something funny? Or would that be, you know, am I, like, tuned out to where you are right now if I do that kind of thing? So just, like, ask those kinds of questions. Like, you know, I have a friend who's not afraid to, like, talk about mortality. My husband would probably not want to talk about mortality, but I told her I was listening to a podcast recently with Cara Swisher. [01:00:01] Speaker A: Yes. [01:00:01] Speaker B: Yeah, I love Cara Swisher. So I heard her on. I think it was Trevor Noah's podcast. [01:00:06] Speaker A: Love Trevor Noah. [01:00:08] Speaker B: I love them both, too. [01:00:10] Speaker A: I have not seen this episode. [01:00:11] Speaker B: You got to listen to the episode. [01:00:12] Speaker A: Oh, my goodness. It's like my dream team. [01:00:15] Speaker B: Okay, so. So it's a relatively new episode, but she talked about people who contemplate death five times a day, they say in Bhutan, I think, but maybe people elsewhere say this, too, that they live a happier life, because when you realize that we are mortal and we're only here for so long, we, you know, create a better life. So she talked about this app called We Croak. It's called We Croak, and it gives you a reminder five times a day, you are going to die. And here's. And here's a quote that might be beneficial. So I, like, I called my friend, and I'm like, I got this app. I don't know if I Want the paid version yet? I need to try. [01:01:00] Speaker A: Do we want to upgrade our WE subscription or we want to keep it the free bottle? [01:01:03] Speaker B: Exactly, exactly. So I still. I still have the free model that's. That's literally giving me a reminder on my phone that says, you are going to die. And I'm like, okay, now I'm laughing about my mortality that three weeks ago I might have been crying about. But. But it's nice to have the safe space and the friend that you can actually talk to about the funny aspects of your mortality and the. The real fears that go along with it. But, you know, I think it's just so multifaceted, the whole. Again, I think I would bring it back to. In Chinese medicine, we look at everybody as an individual, and we're dynamic, changing individuals all the time. So I. I was asked my opinion about a video that was talking about, like, insensitive things that people say to cancer patients. And. And I thought, you know, it kind of depends on the audience. Some people would find it really insensitive, and other people are going to be, you know, amused or relieved or heard by something that might be insensitive. So we're all so different. Right. But I think opening up conversation, being a safe space to talk about it and being a good listener, that's. That's what you want to be for sure. [01:02:27] Speaker A: And I think it also depends on the time. [01:02:30] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:02:30] Speaker A: I know that sometimes, like, super dark humor, I'm ready for it. [01:02:35] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:02:35] Speaker A: And certain times I'm not. I'm like, you know, And I think it's like knowing. Yeah. Knowing the audience and knowing what emotional mental state that they're in. [01:02:43] Speaker B: Yeah. Yeah. [01:02:44] Speaker A: You know, I want to ask you one question before we go into our true or false. I'm going to ask you this. What's one thing that you wish you knew about wellness 20 years ago, if you were to flashback? [01:02:57] Speaker B: I think in some ways. Well, 20 years ago, I was already practicing medicine, but I know as a younger person sometimes I didn't understand other people's struggles until I had maybe treated other patients with the same kinds of struggles. So I think I was out of tune sometimes, maybe with emotions more than anything else. And I think the more people that you've seen who have had a similar, you know, whether it's childhood traumas, adult traumas, big diagnoses, things like that. Yeah. I think tuning into somebody's emotional and spiritual journey is something that has changed and evolved for me. So I don't know if there's specific advice that I would give to my younger self, but probably it would be something about. Yeah. Being a great listener and. Yeah. And holding space for people where they, where they are. I heard a quote yesterday that was something like your own luminosity is your best protection. So being a radiant spirit, I mean, we've talked about heavy stuff today and you brought your luminosity in to our conversation and I think, yeah, that that helps your own health and well being and. [01:04:51] Speaker A: Yeah, I love that word. Luminosity. Yeah, that's such a beautiful word. And I feel like you embody that, you know, just like your spirit, your energy, your wisdom. And I think that that's a really important thing. I will say this, like, as I've, you know, rounded to 40 at this point in my life, like, I think about my 20s and you're like, I'm invincible. I can do whatever. Your 30s, you're like, yeah, I could have. Whoa. All right. Stops getting real. [01:05:20] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:05:20] Speaker A: And now I agree with you. You know, like, I see people around me, you know, have dealt with chronic conditions and big diagnoses, you know, and that level of space and, you know, really being there for people and really trying to understand and really, you know, it, it's more real now. [01:05:43] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:05:44] Speaker A: The way I want to put it, it's, yeah. Just like, wow, like, this is. And this is life and there's, there's hardship in that and there's beauty in that as well. You know, I think that some things can be transformative even when they're painful. And some things are just painful, period. Yeah. And I feel like as you get more. I call it the, the life leather, you know? You know, you start to really experience those things, which is powerful. [01:06:12] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:06:13] Speaker A: Oh, my goodness. Amazing, amazing, amazing. I want us to go to our true or false. Okay, guys, so now it's time for our true or false. You guys know how much I love this segment, so we are going to have Dr. Tony hold up a green thumbs up if it's true and then red thumbs down if it is false. Are you ready? [01:06:33] Speaker B: I'm ready. [01:06:33] Speaker A: Let's jump into the true or false zone. Question one. D D D. You can balance your hormones naturally through tcm. [01:06:42] Speaker B: Oh, yes. True. [01:06:44] Speaker A: Interesting. [01:06:45] Speaker B: Oh, yeah, right? Yeah. [01:06:46] Speaker A: Man, I need to get on the TCM train. I feel like I have, like, so many memos, you know? [01:06:52] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:06:53] Speaker A: How about this one? All herbs are safe because they're natural. [01:06:57] Speaker B: Definitely not. And I think, yes, safe is some herbs might just not be safe across the board, but what's right for you might not be right for me. So yeah, you definitely want to be taking the right thing for yourself. [01:07:18] Speaker A: Skin is a mirror of internal health. [01:07:20] Speaker B: I'm going to say true, but I'm going to do a little flippy, flippy, flippy, flat. [01:07:26] Speaker A: Go ahead. Yes. [01:07:28] Speaker B: I love the flips because there's so many things that can be a mirror of your internal health. So it depends on, you know, we're all different with how we're showing our strengths and weaknesses. So the skin is one of many mirrors. [01:07:43] Speaker A: You're like Western and eastern medicine. Can't coexist effectively. Cannot, cannot. [01:07:51] Speaker B: Oh, false. I think I'm a, I think I'm a living example of that. And not only, not only eastern medicine, but there's so many things I'm doing in the integrative oncology realm. One of them, you know, acupuncture, qigong, all these things along with, you know, the cutting edge city of hope. Yeah. It's all, it's all, you know, important. [01:08:17] Speaker A: Agree. Couldn't agree more. Food can act as medicine. [01:08:21] Speaker B: Oh, definitely. Yes, true. Yay. Yes. [01:08:25] Speaker A: Huge. Detox is mostly a marketing term. [01:08:31] Speaker B: Detox is mostly a marketing term. Can I do it? I'm going to say false, but a little flippy, flippy, flippy. It's, it's, it's overused as a marketing term, I would say. But especially in Chinese medicine, we talk about toxins. If you have eczema that's got like a lot of, you know, yellow exudate coming out of it, it's like, that's toxins. If you have acne that's got a bright red ring and a, you know, big yellow pus, that's toxin to the there. Toxins are a thing and you do need to expel toxins. But you know, it is also way overused. It's like everything. [01:09:21] Speaker A: Craziness. [01:09:22] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:09:23] Speaker A: Herbal medicine takes longer, but works deeper [01:09:28] Speaker B: most of the time. [01:09:29] Speaker A: Yes, okay. [01:09:31] Speaker B: Yes, yes, yes. [01:09:33] Speaker A: This one. The effectiveness of an herb depends more on quality and sourcing. [01:09:38] Speaker B: Flip, flip, flip, flip, flip, flip, flip. The effectiveness of an herb depends mostly on the correct herb being prescribed for the correct constitution. But quality and sourcing is really important. Like, you don't want to have, you know, an herb that has pesticides or fungicides or heavy metal. Like, but it's like with food, if you had non organic strawberries, which you shouldn't do, it's like, can you still get a benefit from that food? I suppose so, but, but you want to have the organic strawberries and you want to have the you know, the highest quality herbs as well. So. But it's not like it wouldn't work, right? You know what I'm saying? It's like, so, okay, that's why the flippy flip. [01:10:28] Speaker A: Flippy flip. Awesome. Awesome. Now we're going to jump into rapid fire. All right, so now, guys, it's time for a spicy game of rapid fire. So here's the game. Here's what we're going to do. I'm going to throw out some questions to Dr. Tony. You have two minutes to answer them. If you need more than two minutes, you can buy some more time. And to buy some more time, we both have to take a shot of this delicious immune boosting elderberry and ginger turmeric shot. [01:10:58] Speaker B: All right? [01:10:59] Speaker A: So let's see. All right, I haven't tried this yet, so hopefully it's not too, you know, but that's. That's our penalty if we need to buy more time. [01:11:08] Speaker B: All right. [01:11:09] Speaker A: All right. Ready for the rapid fire. Spicy. Spicy. Let's go. All right, so I'm going to ask the question. [01:11:16] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:11:18] Speaker A: Okay. Oh, this is a good one. Is it a ying or yan day today? And tell me why. [01:11:25] Speaker B: Oh, well, so far it's a yang day because it's sunny and bright. It'll become a yin day when the sun goes down and we are going to get cooler and we're gonna snuggle up. Right now it's a yang day. You're bright. I'm bright. [01:11:41] Speaker A: True, true. Wow. Okay, 15 seconds. All right, all right, all right. All right, let's do the next one. We'll reset. What's one herb that you can't live without? Go ahead. [01:11:54] Speaker B: What's one herb that I cannot live without? I would say for me, lately, it's cardamom. I love having, like, a chai. I'll have a decaf chai that I make myself after dinner. So. And it just helps. It's like having, like, a digestive thing. And I used to take digestive herbs after, but then my colleagues like, no, no herbs. I'm like, I'm gonna have my chai. [01:12:23] Speaker A: You're like, no, we're not. [01:12:26] Speaker B: So the. The cardamom, like, it's one of the. It's. They. We say it's aromatic. It's like, it helps with digesting. [01:12:33] Speaker A: Okay. I love paraphon. Yeah. Wow. You're, like, on fire with the rapid. This is a rapid fire extra spice round. We're gonna go 30 seconds with Dr. Tony. [01:12:48] Speaker B: All right. Oh, my gosh. [01:12:50] Speaker A: I don't know. [01:12:50] Speaker B: I Can do anything in 30. [01:12:52] Speaker A: Yeah. Okay. All right. So what is one wellness trend that actually works? One wellness trend that actually works. [01:13:02] Speaker B: Wait. [01:13:03] Speaker A: Oh, there it goes. One wellness trend that actually works. [01:13:05] Speaker B: I. I'm gonna say gua sha. I'm gonna say don't look at me because I'm not doing it frequently enough. But I. I think it's great. And consistency. [01:13:14] Speaker A: Okay. [01:13:15] Speaker B: Consistent. Gua sha I think is great. [01:13:17] Speaker A: Okay. Whoa. Getting better. Okay. All right, all right, all right. One thing you wish people stopped doing in the name of self care. [01:13:28] Speaker B: I think it depends on the person. You know, a lot of people do hot yoga, but they've got so much internal heat and they're sweating and getting all fired up. You know, it depends on what's. It's. What's right for you isn't right for everyone. So, yeah, don't jump on the train of doing what all your friends are doing if it doesn't feel. You gotta follow your intuition. Develop your intuition. I know I'm going over time, but in this case, I'd say it's worth it. Like the cold plunge. Maybe your best friend is doing great with a cold plunge. Maybe it's going to make you sick. Like, you know, you gotta develop your intuition. [01:14:09] Speaker A: Oh, we have to take a shot. Let's see how this is. We were just trying to make you take shots. That's pretty much the goal here. Look. Ooh, it's kind of spicy. What do you think? [01:14:31] Speaker B: It's not bad, though. It's the bounce with the elderberry, you know? [01:14:35] Speaker A: I know. We've got a ginger. Poor, poor Dr. Tony. They're making her like ginger. You don't really look like ginger. It's not bad, right? [01:14:43] Speaker B: It's not bad. It's balanced. Yeah, I feel like it's balanced. [01:14:47] Speaker A: It's got a little kick. [01:14:49] Speaker B: It does have a little kick. [01:14:51] Speaker A: Okay. All right, all right, all right, next one. Let's reset. What is one TCM principle. Everyone should know. [01:15:01] Speaker B: We. I'm going to go over [01:15:06] Speaker A: shots. Shot, shot, shot, shot. [01:15:08] Speaker B: I think what's really important is, you know, we say one disease, many treatments. One treatment, many diseases. Meaning if we all have asthma, maybe we need many different treatments. But the formula that I might be giving you for asthma maybe would help somebody else that also has eczema or allergies, you know, So I could give the same blend of herbs for different treatments, but it has to be right for you. So I think that's. That's a fundamental Chinese medicine saying that is it's clinically super. Important. Very relevant for treating people. [01:15:56] Speaker A: We gotta. [01:15:57] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:15:57] Speaker A: Gotta shout it off. [01:15:58] Speaker B: All right. It was worth it. [01:16:00] Speaker A: It was worth it. Yeah. [01:16:02] Speaker B: Oh, you're halfway done. [01:16:03] Speaker A: I'm. [01:16:03] Speaker B: I'm just, like, doing little tastes here, because I'm not. [01:16:14] Speaker A: It's spicy. Kinder is serious. Yeah. What's the first thing that you do when you feel off balance? [01:16:24] Speaker B: It depends on how I'm feeling off balance, but it's going to be either meditation if I want to just be still, or qigong if I need to move. So movement, non movement. [01:16:36] Speaker A: Oh. Oh, okay. All right. I feel like. Okay, this question. I'm gonna go. Okay. I'm gonna ask you all, though. I said I was gonna. So there's three more questions. [01:16:46] Speaker B: No problem. [01:16:47] Speaker A: All right, so your favorite point to reduce menstrual cramping in under five minutes. [01:16:55] Speaker B: Favorite point, it's actually not where you're having the menstrual cramps, but above the knee. A couple inches above the knee. This point, spleen 10. Quickens the blood. It's good. It's great for menstrual cramps. [01:17:08] Speaker A: Didn't know that. Wow. Interesting. Oh, 15. Cleared it, like, no problem. This next one, I'll reset one breath technique for panic. That actually works. [01:17:23] Speaker B: Oh. Two inhales and a long exhale. [01:17:29] Speaker A: I do that. Okay. Easy. [01:17:34] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:17:36] Speaker A: Now you're just like an Olympian at the end. [01:17:38] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah. The questions got easier. [01:17:41] Speaker A: Okay, let's do our last one. [01:17:43] Speaker B: If I need a long time, though, I'm willing. I'm willing to take it. [01:17:48] Speaker A: Let's. Okay, let's see. Let's see how this last one goes. A fashionable pet peeve about DIY herbal mixes. [01:17:59] Speaker B: A pretty box doesn't mean the best results. [01:18:04] Speaker A: That gets a fax clap of the day. Yes. I see so many people selling things. They're like, this will help sell this. This will help. And it's packaged beautifully. But you're like, who created this? Where is this even sourced from? Like, is this right? What's happening? And I know I'm a sucker for packaging. [01:18:20] Speaker B: I am, too. [01:18:21] Speaker A: You know, not all packaging. [01:18:23] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:18:23] Speaker A: Means good stuff. [01:18:24] Speaker B: So I'll tell you a story. In my clinic, we used to make topicals, and I was, like, studying formulation and all kinds of things, and I would make these products. And if I put my own product that I made in, like, the violet glass jar, I would, like, be happier than if I put it in, like, a crappy plastic white thing, you know? And I know what's in it. I know the good ingredients are in whatever jar I'm bringing home, so. It's so psychological, right? [01:18:58] Speaker A: Marketers love to play. [01:18:59] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah. [01:19:00] Speaker A: Oh, are we having to take a shot? Cheer. Cheers. [01:19:08] Speaker B: My thing is still practically full because I'm not actually taking shots. [01:19:13] Speaker A: You're being a good swart about it. Yep. Starting to really like this. I'm kind of vibing on it. It's really good. Thank you, Viv. Organic. [01:19:26] Speaker B: I think they, their tasters did a nice job making them good bones. [01:19:30] Speaker A: You're not affiliated with them, but hey, this is delicious. So now we're going to break down some wild trends. So we have scoured the Tick Tock the Instagram to find some of these wild viral trends and we'd love your opinion on them. This first one, face mapping with acupuncture needles. Is this rejuvenation or just rebranding Botox? [01:19:52] Speaker B: I don't know what? Face mapping. Face mapping. You know, you could say that acne that's here is hormonal, you know, so there's something to be said for face mapping. Face mapping with acupuncture needles. I don't know exactly what that means, but facial acupuncture, where you're doing cosmetic acupuncture, I think that is. It can be great. I think that you want to. It's not like a one time quick fix. You know, you got to be consistent with it. But maybe next time you see me, I will. I will have done it more and I'll be more youthful looking. But yeah, it's on my list of things like, oh, got to do more facial acupuncture. So I'm into it. [01:20:40] Speaker A: Okay. All right. Okay. We'll see you next time. We're going to check back in. When we have you back on the podcast, we're going to check back in to see if you tried that. Yeah, this is what I'm seeing everywhere. So crazy herbal detox packet patches, like, I'm seeing all these people, like, with these different herbal patches. Is this ancient wisdom or wellness theater? [01:21:00] Speaker B: I'd have to go wellness theater on that one. Yeah, I don't know about that. I mean, herbal patches, like, if you have like a pain patch for a backache, you know, something like that could be great. But for detox, like. Yeah, I don't know about that. [01:21:15] Speaker A: Okay. All right. I feel like a lot of things are wellness theater these days, but not everything. But there's a lot of things on Tick Tock, I feel like that way we were talking about this, but Gua Sha for full body sculpting, I'VE been seeing people do full body squat sculpting with their, their Gua Sha. Is this a ancient technique or just influencer spin? [01:21:36] Speaker B: I'm guessing it's influencer spin. I think, again, cosmetic, like Gua sha. If you're, you know, sculpting your jawline and kind of de. Puffing your eye, like, I, I think a lot of that can be really great. And I would, Yeah, I would say yes, definitely sculpting your body like cellulite. I don't know. That's. Yeah. [01:22:03] Speaker A: Guys, you gotta be aware when you see on the tick tock. [01:22:05] Speaker B: All right, I better get myself on tick tock. Maybe just to see what's out there. [01:22:09] Speaker A: It's. Some of it's good. And yeah, we're actually coming with facts and information and knowledge. [01:22:14] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:22:15] Speaker A: But some of it, yeah, yeah, yeah. All right, this last one, Viral herbal teas that clothes claim to balance hormones. I've seen this everywhere. I think I'm in a retargeting trap for this. I keep getting retargeted for these ads. Is this a miracle or just marketing? [01:22:30] Speaker B: You know, it's funny, I have a friend who sent me a viral herbal tea. Maybe I don't know what it was, but she said, for menopause, should I use this? And I'm like, I. I have no objection. You know, give it, give it a shot. But if you really wanted to use herbal medicine to balance your hormones, you probably need something stronger than a tea with a pretty box, so. [01:22:56] Speaker A: Pretty box, yeah. [01:22:57] Speaker B: But I have patients who have done well, like with spearmint. Spearmint tea, for example, for menstrual things. They're like, oh, I feel better. So I think, you know, maybe a little bit. But I. Yeah, it's probably overhyped. [01:23:10] Speaker A: There's. And they're so. And they're so. I mean, a lot of them are really expensive. Like, I'm seeing these. Like, you know, they're beautifully done, but they're actually really expensive. Expensive. Yeah. [01:23:18] Speaker B: Like, yeah, yeah, yeah. [01:23:19] Speaker A: Nobody really paying for. [01:23:20] Speaker B: Yes. You know, I think, yeah, I need rush. [01:23:24] Speaker A: Yeah, we're gonna jump now into the deep, dark Reddit rabbit hole. So we had our team scour Reddit to find some questions that we wanted to ask you. This first one is in the acupuncture subreddit. So the poster said, should I try acupuncture? Let me read you the backstory. So, okay. Like other people, I've been bringing down too much anxiety and depression on myself, partly from nerve issues in the back of the neck, spinal problems and just outright stiff muscles. All this has been giving me terrible headaches, muscle pain, health, anxiety and insomnia. Oh my goodness. I'm trying to practice breathing techniques and stretching. I'm wondering if I should give acupuncture a go. Anyone have any advice or tips for a first timer? [01:24:12] Speaker B: This is the perfect case scenario of what I was describing earlier. Somebody who has physical problems, the neck, the headaches, along with this emotional route. So I think acupuncture is a great modality for that kind of scenario. So I would tell this person, yes, try acupuncture and also maybe, you know, qigong, things like that, to do your homework at home. But we, we know that diet can be helpful. It's maybe not enough for this person. Therapy can be helpful. It's maybe not enough, but, but acupuncture would be great to address the big picture from different angles. [01:24:57] Speaker A: Yeah, very interesting. This next one was in the Chinese medicine subreddit. So this person says, use Chinese medicine in your routine, daily support or as needed relief. So this is what this person says. He said, I'd love to know how Chinese herbal medicine fits into your everyday wellness routine. Do you take them regularly for immune support, stress or energy, or only during specific health issues? Knowing how you use these products helps us not only improve what we offer, but also better guide who others who are just getting started with Chinese herbal extracts. So it sounds like maybe, like, maybe there's like a, you know, company, like there's a company angle to this as well. So what, how do you use Chinese herbal medicine to fit into your everyday routine? [01:25:45] Speaker B: You sort of want to do the least invasive thing first. So if you're generally healthy, you can use food as herbs. When I talk to patients, I don't want them to be on herbs forever. We try to talk about like a beginning and a middle and an end to their treatment. [01:26:04] Speaker A: Right. [01:26:05] Speaker B: For something that's sort of maybe a chronic problem, like if you still had eczema and you were seeing me as a patient, you know, we, I might be prescribing herbs for a course of treatment that might be five or six months long. But at that point, I don't want you, I want you to be better and not to need the herbs. But at home you might still definitely be keeping the healthy diet or if stress was part of your thing. I'm going to be talking to you about what is your stress relieving day to day routine? Is it meditation? Is it going, you know, on your long walks? Is it, is it something like yoga or tai chi, qigong. What are those things and how do we sustain that for after we're done? And with eczema also, it might be like using nice butters and oils on your skin to, to be more preventive. Right? So yeah, actually, yeah, yeah, yeah. So yeah, when you're done with treatment, it doesn't mean that like you're done with your wellness journey. We're launching you into a new phase when you don't need the herbs. [01:27:21] Speaker A: I love phase. I think that that's key, like thinking of it as phases versus just like, you know, that's it. You know, let me go back to the way I was operating before. You know, it's like, okay, now there's a new unlock and you're going to keep moving forward on the journey. I want to ask you this one. So this person, this was in the no Stupid questions subreddit and there's always spicy ones in here. So I'm going to read this one. Why do people still practice traditional Chinese medicine when they know it doesn't work and is unreasonably cruel? So this person said, I just found out about bare bile farms and was horrified. I mean this stuff that's touted as traditional Chinese medicine, is it actually traditional? Who in China is using rhino horns and pangolin scales hundreds or thousands of years ago? I see so much of especially these products from endangered species, like white rhinos marketed as aphrodisiacs. Do people just flat out refuse to take Viagra? What is the animal welfare situation like in China? [01:28:25] Speaker B: Yeah, I went to a whole day long seminar of an organization that was trying to ban the use. And these things can't be imported into the US So for us it wouldn't even be on our radar. But for the international community, China I think had made it illegal to export a lot of these products with endangered species. And then they stopped their ban. So there's like an organization that is trying to like rise up and it's important to. It does ruin the reputation of, of my medicine when those sorts of things happen. It was so weird, I have to tell you. I spent the day on this video thing with different lectures about endangered animals. And at the very end this woman, super doctor from China, and she got up and she said, I used to work in the hospital and I had these two patients, separate incidents. But she described both of them and they were dying and I gave them rhino horn and it saved their life. And I'm like, oh my God. After we've spent this Whole day like, who's gonna, who's gonna cut this woman off? But, you know, the academic in me made me think like, is this for real? Like, again, you know, did people make discoveries that actually were clinically relevant and sound? And it doesn't mean it's ethically okay at all. And I don't think that it is. But it was just so weird that they didn't, that she, she got the mic and they didn't cut off that [01:30:04] Speaker A: mic earlier, like cut the black screen. [01:30:08] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah, yeah. But yeah, I think, you know, a lot, there have been a lot of practices in medicine and all kinds of different medicine that have been very cruel to humans and cruel to animals. And I don't like that. That's part of a profession where most of us practicing, you know, in my, in our culture are like kind and gentle hearted people. And we don't want, no, we don't want that history. But, um, you know, my, my mother, I'm, I'm particularly sensitive about the animal cruelty because my parents are South African. My uncle is like a nature photographer and he takes people on safari and he's like outraged about, about what they do. But my mom used to work in a hospital in a township in South Africa called Soweto. And you know, some things that were happening with like humans. Yeah. Really, really bad. Yeah. Not giving. [01:31:10] Speaker A: Trevor. Noah talks about it a lot in his book. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. [01:31:16] Speaker B: Yes. Yeah. So, yeah, medicine wasn't always loving and, and, and protecting and kind to, to humans and animals. [01:31:32] Speaker A: It's like we've got to figure out a different way. There's gotta be a better way. Like. Yeah, it's one of those macro questions. [01:31:39] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah. But I would say to that person, you don't, you don't want to damn the whole medical tradition because of some things that have been done. [01:31:48] Speaker A: Yeah, exactly. There's imbalance. [01:31:50] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah, yeah. [01:31:53] Speaker A: Now we want to jump into our final segment of today. What is in the bag? Tony brought a bag and she's going to put pull up. We have a couple of products that we already. [01:32:02] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:32:03] Speaker A: So I'd love for you to walk us through the products and. [01:32:05] Speaker B: Yeah, all right. Yes, Matcha is definitely in the bag. Especially lung cancer patients, but any cancer, it has combos. Yeah, yeah, yeah. As one who's not going to only stick to one kind of green tea. I also brought my jasmine green tea because, you know, you got to mix the things up a little bit. [01:32:27] Speaker A: So. Good. [01:32:28] Speaker B: Yeah. I brought cinnamon sticks and I think I brought some. [01:32:34] Speaker A: I have the real sticks like this is like. Like when I make. [01:32:37] Speaker B: When I make my chai, you want to. You want to like bang up your cardamom freshly. Like, I. Right before I'm going to put it into my food or. Or drinks. You don't want to like bang it all in advance or powder it. It's an aromatic herb. You want to let out the aroma from the pod. Right? Yeah. You could smell it. But if you. If. [01:32:58] Speaker A: If I actually. Oh, my gosh, this is really embarrassing. I've actually never seen cardamom like this. [01:33:04] Speaker B: Oh. [01:33:04] Speaker A: I've only seen it like. Oh, my God, it smells amazing. [01:33:08] Speaker B: Let's take a pod. So, you know, usually I'll just like. [01:33:14] Speaker A: Oh, my God. [01:33:16] Speaker B: If you like, really squeeze it hard and try to. It's. It's the aroma. [01:33:23] Speaker A: It's the difference in the. Because I have a powdered stuff. [01:33:27] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:33:27] Speaker A: You know, it smells. Yeah, but it smells. [01:33:28] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. [01:33:30] Speaker A: Oh, it's so beautiful. [01:33:32] Speaker B: It is, isn't it? [01:33:33] Speaker A: Wow. [01:33:34] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:33:34] Speaker A: Also, like, take a bite of it. But wait. [01:33:37] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:33:40] Speaker A: Oh, I love. And yeah. Especially now, like going into fall. [01:33:48] Speaker B: Yeah. Yes. [01:33:54] Speaker A: Oh, my gosh. Yeah. Actually, I mean, it's too hard to chew friends. But yeah. [01:33:59] Speaker B: Yeah, it's a. It's a. [01:34:00] Speaker A: You tried it. [01:34:01] Speaker B: But strong things here. Tissues. [01:34:05] Speaker A: Yep. [01:34:06] Speaker B: Sometimes you need a good cry. Yeah. [01:34:07] Speaker A: We need. Yup. Facts. [01:34:09] Speaker B: And I didn't used to cry as much when I was younger and now it's like, it's so therapeutic. It's wonderful. [01:34:16] Speaker A: I always have these tissues and traveling. You're an adventurer too. [01:34:20] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:34:21] Speaker A: I don't know how many times I've been in the middle of nowhere in no toilet paper. [01:34:26] Speaker B: I know. [01:34:27] Speaker A: These have saved me these. Yes. [01:34:33] Speaker B: I love it for skin care, simplicity. I've got a hyaluronic acid spray and rose. I love. [01:34:42] Speaker A: Me too. [01:34:42] Speaker B: Love. [01:34:43] Speaker A: I actually use it as like an under eye. [01:34:44] Speaker B: Me too. [01:34:45] Speaker A: It's amazing. [01:34:46] Speaker B: It's like on a desert island with just one thing or traveling, you know, sometimes that's all. [01:34:50] Speaker A: Yes, I agree. I use that and castor. I'm a big castor oil. [01:34:54] Speaker B: Oh, nice. Yeah, I did bring my Gua Sha stone. Although, like I said, I need to use this more, more frequently, but, you know, you get enough. [01:35:04] Speaker A: What material is that? Black. Oops. There's a jade or back. Oh, yours is like really cool. This is a cool shape. [01:35:13] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:35:14] Speaker A: It's a good weight to it too. [01:35:16] Speaker B: Yes. A friend of mine has this company, it's called Lan Shin and she also does things online. But yeah, this the little combed part, you can just kind of, you know. But also. Yeah, yeah, it's got. Yeah. [01:35:30] Speaker A: The weightedness, the weight. Yeah, it's been a good weight. Like a good. [01:35:33] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:35:33] Speaker A: You know? [01:35:33] Speaker B: Yeah. What else? Pistachios are in my bag because I [01:35:40] Speaker A: love them and I think my own heart, I'm always. Yeah. [01:35:45] Speaker B: Dark chocolate. Is this like 80% or. Yeah, it might be 85. I can't read without my reading glasses, but I eat it all the time. The Taza chocolate, the stone ground. [01:35:55] Speaker A: I need the chocolate. Like, my boyfriend knows if I'm in a. A mood, he's like, I'm just gonna get her a bar of chocolate. Just slip it her way, you know? [01:36:05] Speaker B: Yes. [01:36:05] Speaker A: I love it. It's so great. Great for magnet magnesium and, you know, [01:36:09] Speaker B: all the things I was buying chocolate. I don't know where I was at one point, but it was like a specialty chocolate shop, I think, and I. There was a guy there who's. Who had a. Who was doing a subscription order for his girlfriend according to when he anticipated that she was going to get her period. And I'm like a very smart man. [01:36:28] Speaker A: Smart, advanced skills. [01:36:31] Speaker B: Yes, Yes. I was so impressed. Good for him. [01:36:34] Speaker A: Good for him. [01:36:38] Speaker B: Oh, my gosh. The Moxa heat pack. This is one. It's like a pack of. It's got an herb, but also with some kind of like, cold thing. You open it up, and when you open it up, after a while the thing starts to get warm. So you can, like, you know, warm your body if you feel cold or like, put it on your. Got like a back pain, like a menstrual. Whatever it is, like anytime you need it stays warm for so long. [01:37:05] Speaker A: That's amazing. [01:37:06] Speaker B: It's great. [01:37:07] Speaker A: Okay, we'll have to, like, find that. Oh, I get a gift. Thank you. I love gifts. [01:37:13] Speaker B: Yes, Great. Yes. If you need warmth. But I mean, if you fell asleep with that in bed with you at night, you have to be careful, like, not to burn yourself. So don't. [01:37:21] Speaker A: Okay, okay. So don't do that. [01:37:22] Speaker B: Yeah, don't. Don't do that. [01:37:23] Speaker A: Okay. But note to sell. Thank you. [01:37:26] Speaker B: If I'm going on vacation, I always bring some acupuncture needles and a little sharps container. So. [01:37:31] Speaker A: Okay. Wow. You bring out. You travel with your needles and everything. [01:37:34] Speaker B: Oh, yeah. Because you never know what's going to happen in some. It's not necessarily going to happen to me. It might be with your friends. And I'm very committed to traveling light. Like, oh, my gosh. I travel super light. That's what I'm saying. Like, the face thing, the rose hip. That's all I need. Well, I'm still trying to do that. [01:37:52] Speaker A: I'm like the gal that's like, oh, man, it's £56. What are you gonna do about it? [01:37:59] Speaker B: I'm the gal who was bitter when I. I went on a women's retreat in Italy last month, and they made me check my bag because it was too heavy. It wasn't too big, but it was too heavy, and I was, like, really mad. Like, I. I'm not one to check my bag. [01:38:15] Speaker A: Not on brand for me. Yeah. [01:38:18] Speaker B: Massage gun. [01:38:19] Speaker A: Oh, those are great. It was so great. Game changer. [01:38:22] Speaker B: Yeah. Yeah, I guess I like to just feel. Feel good and. Yeah. [01:38:29] Speaker A: So many gems. I love it, I love it, I love it. [01:38:31] Speaker B: Yes. [01:38:32] Speaker A: Before we end, Dr. Tony, where can we find you online and your podcast? What are you working on right now that we should know about? [01:38:38] Speaker B: Okay. Online Yin Yang Dermatology dot com. It's Y I N Y A N G dermatology dot com. And I'm doing telemedicine consultations. And behealthier than ever Dot com is the home of my podcast, which hopefully will be launching soon. I've recorded a few episodes, but we still need to get them edited and, like, maybe record some more before I put them out there. But it's fun. [01:39:10] Speaker A: I can't wait. Congratulations. When it launches, we'll send it out to our list. [01:39:14] Speaker B: Oh, thank you so much. [01:39:16] Speaker A: Seriously. Yeah, I can't wait. It's gonna be so. Just joy. Such a joyous. [01:39:20] Speaker B: Yes. Talking to people and getting their stories and bonding. I think it'll just be a nice new chapter of my professional career. [01:39:30] Speaker A: Amazing. Yeah. Thank you so much, doctor. [01:39:34] Speaker B: Thank you so much for having me. [01:39:36] Speaker A: Grateful, like, she's been amazing. Thank you, thank you, thank you. [01:39:40] Speaker B: All right.